What happens when two marketers team up, run a paid workshop, and use that momentum to finish second in a $5.7 million affiliate launch? In this episode, you’ll hear how Justin Demers and Sara Temte built an audience of buyers before the launch even started… then used that list to generate massive affiliate sales, deepen their relationships, and create a winning campaign. If you’ve ever thought, “I don’t have a big list,” or “I’m not sure how to stand out,” this is the playbook you’ve been waiting for.

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Previous Episodes of The Affiliate Guy

$5.7 Million Affiliate Launch Secrets: How a Beginner Earned $18K on Their First Promo

$5.7 Million Affiliate Launch Secrets: How to Create Irresistible Opt-in Offers

$5.7 Million Affiliate Launch Secrets The Affiliate Playbook Part Two

$5.7 Million Launch Secrets Revealed: The Affiliate Playbook Part 1

How Two Parents Built a 104,000-Person Email List in Just 14 Days

$5.7 Million Affiliate Launch Secrets: From Zero to Second Place with Justin Demers & Sara Temte

Matt McWilliams: So what happens when two marketers who just a year before had virtually no list, team up to finish second in a $5.7 million affiliate launch? Well, you’re going to find out in this episode because you’re going to hear how Justin Demers and Sarah Tempte built an audience of buyers before the launch even started, then used that list to generate massive, uh, affiliate sales. If you’ve ever thought I don’t have a big list or I’m not sure how to stand out, this is the playbook you’ve been waiting for.

Let’s get started. Hey, welcome back to part five of this seven part series on the $5.7 million affiliate launch secrets. Uh, in this episode you are in for a treat because I’m joined by Justin Deemers and Sarah Tempte who basically went, uh, they went from basically zero list to finishing second overall in this massive launch. Literally, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales. And they did it in a really unique way. And so in this episode, and by the way, if you’ve missed any of the previous episodes, go back and check them out.

Uh, the first two episodes we did kind of a recap of what worked and what didn’t in this almost 6 million dollar launch. Then I had a special bonus episode where I shared a, uh, strategy that I taught the affiliates in that launch. And then the last one was our first, uh, interview that we did with Michelle Caruana. And she learned, you know, we learned how she made almost 20,000 bucks, uh, from, you know, this affiliate promotion when she was a complete beginner.

So go back and listen to those episodes if you missed them. But in this one we’re talking about how Justin and Sarah used a paid workshop before, uh, before the cart even opened, before the launch even started, to build a list of buyers, not just leads, but buyers. And that made a huge difference in how they promoted and who they promoted to. We also talk a little bit about how they promote as a team that’s unique. How they use their personal stories, uh, that’s an important part. And how you can take just what they did, a small, focused audience, and turn it into a huge launch.

There’s so much good stuff in this one, so let’s jump right in. Hey, what’s up, insiders? And welcome to another insider profile. I am super excited today. I’ve got Sarah Tempte and Justin Demers. Um, and we are going to be talking about, like, they were telling me a little bit about it before we went live. This is just crazy, guys. I ran the affiliate launch that they promoted and I had a certain idea of what size audience they had and what they were doing. And I’m going to tell you right now, I knew nothing. I literally knew nothing.

They did so amazingly well that I just assumed they were considerably larger than they are. And so, guys, for those of you out there, you got a small list or maybe you got a small Facebook group. Maybe you’re not like the be Everywhere club where you’re, you know, you’re not on Instagram and Pinterest and Twitter and I don’t know, like, name a social media network that’s gonna pop up in the next eight minutes. Like, you’re not on there. Uh, this is the insider profile for you guys because you’re gonna learn how they did it with a small list. Some might even say tiny in Internet marketing circles. And one social media channel, one Facebook group that, well, I’ll let them tell you how big it is. So, Justin and Sarah, welcome.

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Sarah Tempte: Thanks for having us.

Justin Demers: Thanks for having us stoked, man.

Matt McWilliams: I mean, I’m super excited about this. This is gonna be so awesome because think people are gonna be like, blown away. So I wanna start first of all with, um, I know what promotion you did. Um, I ran it. So, so this is one of those questions like, like, just don’t look at me like, why are you asking us that, dude?

Justin Demers: Have to play dumb. We get it.

Matt McWilliams: Did you get hit in the head in the last couple of months? So tell us a little bit about this promotion, uh, that you did and how you ended up doing, like, what were the chain of events that led you guys to being an affiliate for this?

Justin Demers: You want to start, Sarah?

Sarah Tempte: Yeah. Let’s dive in. So we promoted tribe, Stu McLaren’s membership course. And I mean, we promoted it because we, we have a membership. We love memberships. And most importantly, we learned memberships from Stu himself. So for us it was a no brainer. Justin, uh, had promoted Tribe previously before we partnered up in business. And, um, so he done a pretty chill affiliate campaign the year before. And we were like, let’s do this again. We had a community where because we run a membership, I’M sure people can relate. Whatever business you’re running, you get people asking you questions about the things that you’re doing. And so we were running a membership and so we had people in our community saying, how are you growing your membership?

How are you doing this? What are you using for this? And we’re like, we love running a membership, but we’re certainly not the experts. Let’s send you over to our friend Stu, who knows about 10 times more about memberships than we do. So it just felt like a really natural fit for us.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah. So who is your audience then? Like, you’re not the membership people, clearly. Uh, but who is actually your audience and what are they coming to you for?

Justin Demers: It’s um, we’re a strange bunch around our parts. So, so, I mean, who our audience is. We have a lot of people in the online space, so course creators or membership site owners, coaches, consultants. We have some local businesses. But I mean, our company is called Wake up to Freedom. And so we’re attracting a specific type, someone who wants to run a business but doesn’t want their life to be like only the business.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah, yeah.

Justin Demers: And so, you know, it’s generally a slightly older demographic, um, you know, mid-30s and up. Usually people, um, who have done life for a little bit and realized like, maybe they were sold something that didn’t quite live up to what they thought it was going to be. And now they’re looking for something that has a little bit more meaning, a little bit more purpose, and definitely a little bit more, uh, a lot more freedom associated with it. Which again, kind of like memberships are perfect for that. So it’s a natural fit.

Sarah Tempte: Yeah. And we specifically teach people about front end offers. So we teach a method that we call mini workshops. And we help people who have an online program, a two, uh, thousand dollars course, a coaching program, a service. We help them get clients by doing a low ticket workshop. So we’re like, you know, are you sick of doing free webinars? Are you sick of doing free content every single day? What if you got people to pay you to come to a workshop? So you make money through the workshop, but then also you get an opportunity to help people and then upgrade them into their backend offers. So it’s perfect. We teach the front end. And for everyone in our community who wants a membership on the back end, we’re like, go chat with Stu. Tribe is out.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah. So that path for your students might look like, you know, a low ticket workshop. And I would imagine low tickets. What’s what, seven to $37 on average?

Justin Demers: Probably we have something that do a little bit more, but it’s, it’s around that range.

Matt McWilliams: Okay, so double, you know, single or double digits, they’re going to go from that. They are going to have a thousand dollar plus you know, potential product and maybe a coaching service, something like that. But then from there they want that recurring revenue, that membership. And like you guys said, you know, you could probably teach people how to start a pretty decent membership. You learn from the best or you could actually send them to the best. And that would be Stu, of course. And so I love, I mean that’s, that’s like the first rule of affiliate marketing is you find the gaps in your business. Um, you find the things that your audience needs that they, they really do need to learn, that you’re just not going to be the ones that teach them. And then, and then you teach them.

Justin Demers: Um, I mean, I mean it goes back to our own. Like our own wake up to freedom is uh, we do one thing and we do it amazingly well. And so it’s the mini workshops, like that’s what, that’s our expertise. And so we are a. Okay to point people in the direction of someone who does one thing amazingly well. That’s not that. So if it’s a membership, you know, it’s Stu. If it’s an uh, all in one platform, it could be kajabi. Like so for us, like we love nothing more than pointing people to the best resource that they’re looking for.

Matt McWilliams: So about two years ago, did you guys even exist? Two years ago or. Yeah, no. This is a crazy whirlwind thing. Like you just, oh, here I am. And now I’m going to be second place in one of the biggest Internet marketing launches of the entire year. Um, that’s kind of cool. So two years ago you didn’t exist. Uh, when did you guys actually start?

Sarah Tempte: We just hit one year in business a couple weeks ago.

Justin Demers: Our one year anniversary.

Matt McWilliams: Wow. When you promoted Tribe last year. So 2020, how did you even do that? I mean you really didn’t even have an audience or anything?

Justin Demers: No, I had just left uh, my previous company and I was just kind of like, I mean I’d been in Stu’s world for a couple years, um, and I had a membership in my last company so I was familiar with membership. So there wasn’t like a new thing for me.

Matt McWilliams: Sure.

Justin Demers: And um, I just love Stu and his approach. And so I was an affiliate and um, I had ah, one of my own Mini workshops at the time. So it was around teaching people live video. And so I had my list of customers which wasn’t very large. And so that’s who that affiliate promotion went to. And same thing, just kind of sharing my story, why I love memberships, uh, from a. From a freedom perspective. And, um, I’m a dad. And so being able to spend time with my kids, like that type of story. And, you know, some people gravitated towards it and signed up using my link. But it was, it was definitely not. Nothing like what we did this year.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah. And I think the beauty is like. And I say this in a sense from a sense of awe, not a, uh, please do not take this as me insulting you. But Stu said, I don’t know, back in like January, this is four or five months, he said, you know, we were kind of going through like, who we expected to do what and okay, what big affiliates had dropped out. What were some of the affiliates we wanted to get, who are going to be some of the people who might surprise us, you know. And so we’re looking at all these metrics. Like I’m looking at, you know, Facebook, you know, we use Facebook following, Instagram following as a proxy for email list size. It’s.

It’s not a one to one, clearly, but there’s a pretty good chance if you’ve seven extra Facebook following, you probably at least doubled your email list. You know, again, not always the case, but we can use that as a proxy.

So we’re looking at those things. And he goes, he goes, one of the people I want to put on that, that list, Matt, is Justin, you know, Demers. And I’m like, who? I don’t even know you’re talking about. Like, wait, I’m looking at the list. It’s like, yeah, he. He’s like way down there. What? Why are you telling me m this, Stu? And he’s like, I think he’s going to do something.

I just have this feeling he’s doing. He explains. And I’m like. And I kind of. I told him this afterwards. I was like, I kind of like, okay, sure, I will do it because you’re my client and you pay me a lot of money and I’ll do whatever you say to do. And then, sure enough, you actually far outperformed even what he thought you were gonna do. I think that’s just amazing. And so that’s what we’re gonna talk about today is how you did that. So first, let’s start with those numbers that I think just Blow me away. Uh, you have two basic assets as far as audience. You’ve got your email list and you’ve got a Facebook group. Um, let’s talk numbers on those. What’s the email list size?

Sarah Tempte: So the email list is about 6,500.

Matt McWilliams: So for all of you out there, we know this from polling, you guys. Um, the average list size of AIM members is around 4 to 5,000. So Justin and Sarah here, it’s like the difference between. They’d be the first said the difference between 5,000 people and 6,500 people is not like, that dramatic. Um, this, you know, if they had 50 or 60, I could see you. I was arguing. Well, they’re unrelatable. No, they’re super relatable. And then you have a Facebook group. So this is what I know what happens. Oh, well, they have a small list, but I’ll bet you they have a big group, you know, like fifty thousand, a hundred thousand members. We know some people like that. Tiny list, big Facebook group. Um, I’m totally setting you up for this. I think people know where I’m going. How many people are in your Facebook group?

Justin Demers: It’s less than 3,000, I think. I mean, it was probably at this point, maybe 2,500.

Matt McWilliams: Wow.

Sarah Tempte: And to be super clear, we don’t have an audience hiding somewhere else either. Like, we don’t have a YouTube following. We don’t have a podcast, we don’t have an Instagram account. We’re not on Twitter. We’re not Clubhouse. We’re not on TikTok. Like, we’ve got the Facebook group and we’ve got our email list. And, man, we’re super happy to not be famous and to have a small, awesome community of people who really trust us.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah. And just as a side note, I love, um, you know, you and I are friends on Facebook. Justin, I just love your post. I will say that for about the first four months that we were, we were friends, you kept posting about, you know, wutf, Wake up to freedom. And I know you know where I’m going with this. I swore that your acronym was WTFU or UF or what.

Justin Demers: Wtf. We have, like, uh, running, like, story in our community. It’s like, we help people go from wtf, what am I doing? To Waking up to freedom. Like, that’s actually.

Matt McWilliams: I just thought it was, uh, wake the up, uh, is what I thought. I was like, oh, so Justin’s like one of those, like, you know, ex Navy SEAL motivational. Like, you got to get up at 4:30 in the morning, work 19 hours a day, eight days a week. You know, like, that’s what it’s. Complete opposite.

Justin Demers: Yeah. Couldn’t be any further from that.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah. Um, and I’m, like, looking at this, and it’s like, you know, he’s like, wake the leap up. And he’s like, I’m on vacation. And I’m like, what are you doing? You’re not living what you say. And it took me about a couple of months to figure out that was not the acronym. Um, so let’s talk about this. I want to talk about, strategically speaking, how you guys did this. Uh, and then I want to talk about the workflow between the two of you. But let’s start with the strategic side. Um, if you had to pick maybe your top three, like, you look back and go, because again, you went from with tiny audience and, you know, less than 3,000 people in your Facebook group to finishing guys.

I just want to say, like, second place in one of the biggest Internet marketing launches of the year. I mean, it was a $40,000 second place prize. And you guys, I think maybe 17, 14 something sales from first place. The hundred thousand dollar prize. Um, you know, nearly, uh, we’ll just do round numbers. Nearly $400,000 in sales, everyone. So this is like, these are massive numbers. So if you had to sum up and say, like, here are the top three things that we did, what would those be that got you? I know it’s kind of a loaded question, but I’ll throw it out there.

Justin Demers: I mean, maybe I want to say one thing because there’s like a little, like, asterisk next to our list size, which is we don’t do any freebies so that we don’t have a lead magnet. We don’t have an opt in. We don’t have. So our 6,500 are buyers. They’ve bought something from us. And so the trust is much, much, much higher than a, um, list of 50,000 people who’ve just downloaded a freebie. And so that’s our approach. Our approach is always like a transfer of money, usually a small amount, then a ridiculously amazing experience that far exceeds the expectations that someone would have paying that little amount. So for this tribe launch, we did a paid product on the front end. We m sold it for a dollar.

Matt McWilliams: I think there’s an important distinction there before you move on. Sorry. When people talk about growing their list, the number in itself can very much be a vanity number. Now, all things being equal, I’ll take a quarter of a million people versus 5,000 people. But all things aren’t equal, you know, and it’s a very good point. Like our best, when I look at the, you know, we’ve done a couple of paid challenges, and we only had, you know, 400 people in each of them.

I would say 50% of our annual sales come from the 800 people that were in those two paid challenges versus, I mean, it’s a fraction of our list, and yet that’s half of our. Our sales. Um, I think that’s a really important distinction because a buyer is a buyer is a buyer, as Dan Kennedy famously said. And you’re creating these people, and then, you know, you charge them a dollar or $7 or $17 or whatever, and then what you’re doing is you’re giving $1,000 worth of value, 100%. So they paid anything. Their expectations are here. They’re already significantly higher than free. And even if you exceed the free expectations by a factor of 10, you know, I learned math. I’m not very good at it, but I remember that 10 times zero is zero.

Sarah Tempte: Yeah.

Matt McWilliams: So it’s a hundred times zero. It’s still zero. But if it’s one and you exceed it by a hundred, it’s a hundred. You know, I don’t know how that works in Canadian Justin, but, um, it’s like a quarter.

Justin Demers: Yeah, it’s like 25 cents.

Matt McWilliams: There you go.

Sarah Tempte: Uh, no, it’s true, though.

Matt McWilliams: Like, I just think that’s a very. I mean, that’s huge. That’s everything right there.

Sarah Tempte: Yeah. We’ve got a community of people who’ve proven that the way they operate in the world is they’re willing to spend money to solve problems. And yes, a lot of those people have only spent 27 bucks with us, uh, and bought a simple workshop. But I think it’s still a very different perspective than the type of person who’s downloading all the freebies or attending all the webinars. Doesn’t mean that’s a worse person. And yet which person you rather have on a business list. So we came into this affiliate promotion with the same perspective.

We kind of looked at each other and said, are we going to do something really weird and not do anything free for this affiliate promotion? We’re like, yeah, we’re going to stick with this. So we launched a paid warmup product. So to our list, to our Facebook group. And then we also ran some ads to something that we called membership magic, which was essentially, I think, the easiest way to think about it is a Private paid podcast, um, where we basically, we didn’t do a bunch of training. We didn’t promise anyone that we were going to teach them about memberships.

But we said, hey, we’ve grown our membership from 0 to 500 people in the last eight months. Do you want to hear that story? And we were going to do eight live episodes, and people would get access to those eight episodes plus show notes.

So it was pretty simple for us. We showed up on a Facebook live, recorded the episode and sent out the recording, and then also sent out some simple show notes for each episode. And we did that in the 30 days leading up to the, um, affiliate cart open. So we’d created this segment of our audience that was not only tangentially interested in memberships or hypothetically interested in memberships, but they’d actually paid us a dollar to learn our membership story. And they’d spent, you know, the last 30 days hearing from us twice a week, just for like 30 minutes or so about our membership growth story. And we, um, dropped Sue’s name along the way, shared that we’d learned a bunch from Stu, even had Stu on as a guest for one of the episodes. Um, so we, I think that was the first big thing that we did was create a paid warmup product. And just like, we’re really intentional about that Runway.

Justin Demers: It also gave, I mean, for our mini workshops, we’re always looking at like average order value so that we can, you know, Stu talks about like, now the idea of like the unlimited marketing budget, like to scale our membership and our paid products. We have an unlimited marketing budget because our average order value is higher than it costs us to acquire a customer. Well, we were doing the same thing with membership magic. Like we were looking at it and saying, yes, it’s a dollar, but we’ve got an upsell and We’ve got a one time offer. So our average order value is around 30 bucks, maybe 35 depending on the day. So we can spend $35 to sell a $1 product to get someone into our world who may be interested about memberships.

Matt McWilliams: And so everything on the affiliate side is pure profit.

Sarah Tempte: Yes, totally.

Justin Demers: Yeah. So we made money before the affiliate promotion launched and we had grown our audience of buyers.

Matt McWilliams: That is super powerful. And Sarah, you said some there people are, they’re willing to spend money to solve problems. And I mean, the example I always use is, know I’m in my office now, my wallet, I got to go up the stairs, down the hall, try not to make too much noise that I wake up Our dog. Because then I have to take him out. And so it’s. And so if I’m looking at something, just pay a dollar. It’s not even the dollar. Like, I mean, I live in the. I live in America, not Canada, you know.

You know I live in America. Right? I don’t care where you live in America. You can afford a dollar. Okay, you can find a dollar. Right. But it’s the going upstairs. Try not to wake up the dog, you know, tiptoeing down the hall and all that. And then got to come all the way back down and enter digits into the thing. There’s a certain barrier to entry versus type your best email, click Enter. And then I may never even look at it again.

Just because I did all of that, you can bet I’m going to download every episode, I’m going to make sure they end up on my phone, I’m going to listen to them and I’m going to take notes because I went through a lot of effort. And even if your wallet’s right here, you still got to pull it out, type in. You know, there’s a certain level I just. That is super powerful. Um, that is huge. So you did this mini workshop kind of, um, what was the next step for people from there? You mentioned the average order size of $35. So I’m kind of curious. Like, you know, they paid a dollar. What’s the other 34 bucks?

Sarah Tempte: Yeah, so we had an upsell and a one time offer. Okay, so upsell was a, uh, um, training that we called Churn Buster. So here’s, you know, five ways that we reduce Churn in our membership. And then the one time offer was 97 bucks. And it was another training. We called it the anti webinar and it was like get the slides and a breakdown and the emails for a webinar that we used, or we call it, you know, an anti webinar that we used to add, you know, 300 members in, you know, with a single presentation.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah. You ended up with how many people in the workshop?

Justin Demers: Just under 1500 people.

Matt McWilliams: 1500. I mean, so you guys, I mean you’re talking. Well over 10% of those people ended up buying tribe. Um, that right there is just the power of this, you know, that, that paid idea. Uh, we also.

Justin Demers: The thing that’s interesting too is we can get into this, but we had a percentage. I guess this would be point two. Do we want to move on to point two?

Matt McWilliams: Yeah, let’s. I just, I want to just point out for our, for Our members like that. And I’m sure you guys would agree with this when you have a list of everybody, there’s a certain reluctance to really push hard on a product as an affiliate. They paid money to learn about memberships. They may turn out. I mean, clearly 87% of them did not pay anything to Stew or whatever the percentage is. 85% paid nothing. But you had no fear in going, you know, completely all out because they’re not going to pay you money and then be like, actually, I have no interest in this whatsoever. There’s at least a cursory level of interest versus, wow, they downloaded a PDF while that really, they’re really interested, you know, um, all right, let’s go into point two. So the.

Justin Demers: When this relates to what you’re just sharing, it’s the idea of, like, the content that we firmly believe, like, there’s no one, one way to do everything. There’s like a million ways to do everything. And so for us, in these eight episodes, it was us sharing our story about why membership.

And, uh, part of that is, like, breaking down a lot of, like, myths around, like, the content treadmill or always having to be on the clock or, um, you know, memberships being harder to sell than courses. Just stuff that people generally take as fact. In our experiences, it’s not fact at all. In fact, in a lot of cases, it’s like the opposite. But in sharing that, we also wanted to make it clear that, like, memberships are not for everyone.

So even if you paid us a dollar, and at the end of this experience, you learn that you don’t want a membership, that was awesome. It was not. The goal of this, was not give us a dollar so we could sell you another product. It was, give us a dollar, we’ll share everything we’ve done to grow our membership. But if at the end of this experience you’ve realized that a membership is not right for you, then that’s a dollar well spent.

And so when I look at, like, let’s say 150, I don’t know, as, like, 150 people that signed up for Tribe, I don’t look at the other people as, like, failed conversions. I look at that and say, like, they. They found out that either tribe wasn’t right for them just fine. A membership wasn’t right for them, or even just like this, this time this year, the season wasn’t right for them. And so that’s. That’s a success for us.

But the other thing that came from this, and this was totally like, uh, an unexpected but welcome surprise is because of the way our product fits in. It leads perfectly to memberships. So, like, if you have a mini workshop on the front end, like, that’s what we do, right? We have a mini workshop that fills our membership. Well, there’s a number of people that went through the M membership magic and realized they actually wanted to focus first on the mini workshop. So we had a bunch of people who became members of our own membership instead of building their membership first. So it actually worked out that we did like the tribe launch. And then on the back end of that, we opened up our membership to people. Uh, only in that group is like a private launch. And we had a good amount of people hop in to wake up to freedom.

Matt McWilliams: So you had another revenue stream there.

Justin Demers: Little down sell.

Matt McWilliams: I mean, that’s. I mean, you’re probably. I’m just gonna guess you’re talking over from that mini workshop. You’re talking 25%. Probably bought something else for me. Yeah, that’s. Yeah. I got to talk to you guys about to do that. Um, I’ll just say our mini workshop slash challenges convert more about 8%. So, um, you’re about three times higher. We’ll talk later because I gotta learn from you guys. Um, so that’s two. Let’s look. Let’s look at maybe that third strategy. Is there something you guys did, um, you know, that just, you know, maybe you haven’t seen done before or, you know, you feel like you kind of innovated it, uh, for this promotion specifically. Um, let’s talk about specifically once tribe opened, you know, the selling part of tribe. Um, just curious, is there anything you guys, did you think that was pretty cool?

Justin Demers: I mean, Sarah’s sales page was a work of art, so we didn’t treat it like a tribe’s open. Now go check out, like, we had a whole sales page for our own bonuses and stuff, which are fine. But I think it was again, just the story of, um, why tribe, what it’s done for us, uh, how it’s been a shortcut. Um, how we’re. We’re not online marketer famous. Nobody knows who Sarah and Justin are. We’re just two regular people and somehow we’ve made it work so you could too. I mean, we really leaned into that story. I mean, not only through membership magic, but the sales page and also during tribal, like the open cart, like, we’re not special. We don’t have some unique gift. We weren’t. We don’t have a huge audience. None of that stuff. We’re just like two normal people who somehow built a seven figure membership doing things taught by this guy. Like if that’s what you want, there’s no better place to learn it.

Sarah Tempte: Mhm. And I think in addition to that, Matt, you hinted at this earlier that it’s easy to hold back from going level 10 with an affiliate launch.

Matt McWilliams: Mhm.

Sarah Tempte: When you’re not sure if the people in your audience are going to be annoyed or going to be interested or going to be turned off. And I think because we had this group of people that we knew we were the right fit for this, it did really free us up, uh, to treat this promotion really seriously. And so that included building a full sales page and an awesome stack of bonuses. But it also was, we sent I think 30 emails during the um, main window of the promotion. I don’t actually know if that’s like that maybe that isn’t really high. It felt like a ton to us. But okay, so we sent 30 emails.

Matt McWilliams: If you look at, if you look at the plans and I could pull it up. Mhm. I think our all in plan, I say only, only had 21.

Sarah Tempte: Okay. So we sent 30 over the span.

Justin Demers: Of the promotion just like, like copy and paste. Like Sarah wrote like 30 emails that were again works of art. Like I remember people in our M membership magic group saying like they were adding these emails to their swipe files. They were like they couldn’t wait for the emails to show up in their inbox and read them as examples of like how to do emails. Well, like that’s what you want, right? Like people waiting for emails, not unsubscribing because you’re like, you know, banging them over the head.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah, that’s powerful. Uh, I mean, just the number, I mean that’s kind of like the ultimate success secret we tell people when we look at like the biggest differentiator between, you know, affiliates who kind of like do mediocre and then wildly successful. It’s like it’s not, oh, they’ve sent three emails versus 30. It’s, they sent 20 versus 30. And the reality is those extra 10 emails from a, um, from a upsetting audience standpoint have almost no effect. From a conversion standpoint. That extra 50%, you know, can generate an extra 50% in sales.

Sarah Tempte: Right.

Matt McWilliams: And there’s a, there’s a direct correlation just between volume and sales. Uh, that’s awesome. I think you guys that might have broken the record. I’ll have to go back and look, I know we’ve come really close to 30. And there’s one specific campaign I’m thinking of that when we’re off here. I just wrote a note. I’m actually curious to go back into our archives and look because I think we came really close to 30, but didn’t. And so as far as I know, that might be some sort of Internet marketing record, which is awesome. So awesome.

Justin Demers: Here’s all about the email records. Look at the length, the word.

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Matt McWilliams: Yeah, just in bonus money. Not even, not even. Just forget commissions. Forget the, you know, you guys almost earned six figures in just commissions bonus money. And I forget the exact number of prizes, but that’s probably $1,500 per email in bonus money. It’s probably a little bit off. That’s probably use 40,000 bucks for second place. So um, yeah, you probably earn 1500 bucks in bonus money for every one of those emails. Again, above and beyond commission. So it’s like, you know, right in this email, 1500. I mean like I just turned, if I Finish this email, $1500 is going into our bank account.

Sarah Tempte: Yeah. And we were really transparent. I mean I sent an email on um, it was probably like the second to last day that said the subject line was please stop sending me emails.

Matt McWilliams: Mhm.

Sarah Tempte: And I was literally just saying like, we know that we’ve sent a lot more emails than you’re used to. We know it’s a lot. We know you might be rolling your eyes but like here’s just like three reasons that we’re still emailing at this point. And so like we wanted to acknowledge like we gave people chances to opt out. We told people it’s okay to decide that tribe isn’t for you. It wasn’t like 30 hardcore sales emails, but it was 30 chances for us to tell our story or point people to, you know, a webinar. I mean we sent emails for the live streams that Stu did. We send emails to replays of things because it was just like if we can get people into um, the tribe funnel, basically we know that Stu and his team will take care of them. So let’s give as many touch points and we know that there’s going to be some people who sign up for the webinar and watch it.

There’s going to be other people who aren’t webinar people. So like, let’s give them a Facebook post they can go read. Let’s give them um, a live stream replay they could go watch because you know, different people have different content consumption habits.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah, that’s so important. And I think I Think it’s uh, pretty powerful there. You know, you mentioned, well, there’s actually two things, um, that you touched on. The first is just touching on the different, you know, like some people aren’t webinar people, some people aren’t podcast people, some people aren’t. They, uh, don’t do live videos because maybe they have a full time job. You know, you’re going live at 2pm I’m in a meeting.

Justin Demers: Mm.

Matt McWilliams: I mean, like, are you. I mean, I can’t come, so hook me up with the replay. I think the other thing, you know, just the basics of what you did, including the opt out, um, that says I’m not interested in tribe, please don’t send me any more emails. That’s a very basic thing. Because here’s the thing, it’s Easy to send 30 emails when you know that in the previous 29 you gave them a chance just to go click and tell you that I’m not interested.

And so I always create this visual picture cart close day when I’m um, taking a deep breath before I write seven emails to send to our audience. On the sixth email and the seventh email if they haven’t A, bought or B, click that opt out link. There are only two possibilities. They either aren’t getting the emails, you know, they’re on vacation or something. Okay, well, sending a sixth email, seventh email when they’re on vacation isn’t gonna, they’re not gonna like be like that, uh, that gum it, Matt. And I’m unsubscribing because it’s the first one I’ve read all day. Or B, they’re on the fence and they’re just, they’re looking for something and it could be a specific story that you tell Sarah. It could be, you know, um, uh, a case study. Could be an extra bonus. Could just be the deadline. You know, they’re looking for that incentive to kind of push them to one side of the fence.

Justin Demers: Before I ask, we actually got an email like the following day we got an email from someone that was like, I’m so glad you sent this email because I just checked, like I was out and I just got this and this was like, was like an hour before the car. I just got this and I just signed up for Tribe. Like the person had not seen anything else. I mean maybe they uh, probably would have signed up for membership magic. But literally, like they didn’t see the whole tribe promotion. And then that email like an hour before and then they thanked us. Like they legitimately thanked.

Matt McWilliams: Glad you said that because some people think I’m lying when I say that people thank me for the after midnight emails and they’re like, nobody really does that. I’m like, yes, they do. Here’s a screenshot. And they’re like, that person has the same last name as you. I’m like, no, I’m just kidding. Before I go on to the last two questions, I want to go back to something, Justin, that you kind of. I feel like you glossed over it, but I think it was like marketing 101 when you were talking about the sales page and you said, you know, I wrote down just a few notes. You said that. First of all, you said all we did was just tell our story.

Justin Demers: Mhm.

Matt McWilliams: That’s marketing right there. And I know you know this, but I just want to point out for our viewers, you also said a phrase like tribe was the shortcut. And you’re acknowledging the fact this is a $2,000 investment.

Justin Demers: Mhm.

Matt McWilliams: And you’re acknowledging that you don’t have to buy this to do a membership. Many people have done memberships without Stu’s help and been wildly successful. But if you want the shortcut, here’s the answer. And then you pointed out like the objections. I think, well, we’re not famous. We’re not like big names. We don’t, we didn’t. We don’t have a big list. But we did it. And you can too. And I just wanted to highlight that. That’s, um. If you guys want to copy a sales page, just follow those four points right there. That’ll be a killer sales page. Take that, combine it with our bonuses template and um, There you go.

Justin Demers: Here’s the other part of that sales page. So, um, we had a bunch of people that are in wake up to freedom or that had bought membership magic who were already in Tribe. They signed up for Tribe years ago. And so. But they read that sales page and saw those bonuses and wanted them. So we actually made the offer to say like, hey, if you’re already a triber and you just want to buy these bonuses and just participate in our experience, you can. And it was like $700, $800. So it wasn’t an inexpensive downsell. And again, a significant amount of people bought that. That’s how powerful the sales page was. So we treated it like a product. And I think the other thing about this, which I got from.

Matt McWilliams: Uh, I.

Justin Demers: Can’T remember who it was from one of the other affiliates last year, um, was they were, they were just, it was kind of Like a comment made in passing in the Facebook group where it was like they treated the Tribe launch as their own launch. And that’s what we did. Like Sarah and I looked at the calendar. We’re like, we are not going to launch our own product. That would make us hundreds of thousands of dollars, add reoccurring revenue.

We’re gonna like, we’re all in on Tribe. So that meant that like we did the sales page, we did the emails, we did the ads, we did the nurturing, we did the trust building, we did the amazing product. We did everything we would have done except at the end we sold someone else’s product. So we didn’t have to deliver on that. Like that was the only. And. And then we delivered our bonuses. But that’s uh, that was the only exception. And I think that’s the. Like Sarah and I looked at, um, like we’re obviously going to be promoting Tribe again next year because it works. But we put all this effort into this year to create so many assets that now we can package up in a new package next year. So all the work we did this year is not just for a one time launch. Now we’ve got stuff that we can build on for next year.

Matt McWilliams: Uh, we’ve had the same tribe bonuses. We created a new one last year. We have the same otherwise, because I think this was the fifth time we promoted Tribe. You know, we’d only. We not only run, we’re not only the president of the company, we’re also a client. Uh, if you remember those commercials, the hair club for men back in the 90s. Anyway, um, we not only ran Tribe, but we’re also promoted. Our bonuses have been the exact same every year. The first year, I remember like right after the launch and we did really well.

I think we finished like in 10th place or something. And I was like, yeah, oh crap, we have to create all this stuff. And so the next year, it was like a week before the launch and the team’s like, hey, what are we gonna do? I’m like, same thing as we did last year. No questions, shut up, move on. And then we finally we added one. We saw a need last year when we did really well and we created, created, um, another bonus. But that is the beauty. Guys. Like you can recreate these. The other thing you mentioned, this sort of Justin, like four. I’m trying to think of our tribe bonuses.

Four of those have become individual products that we sell for what we, uh, like when it says 997 value, that is not like me Pulling, you know, like, ooh, this workshop’s worth $5,000. Wink, wink. You know. No, we, like, sell it on the website for, like. And people buy it once a week, you know, for $1,000, you know, and they’ve become products that we can sell. And then one of the things that we’re able to do is actually go to people who have purchased those products and say, hey, you’ve purchased this. Uh, this is a part of our, you know, our tribe. Um, bonus. If you want all this other stuff, you know, here’s how you get it. And it’s been really effective. So, um, I want to talk about the workflow for you guys you mentioned, like, Justin, of course, you know, you’re doing. You’re being the typical humble entrepreneur and giving all the credit to Sarah. And, um, and that’s awesome, but I know it’s not 100% true.

Justin Demers: I just hang out in my bunky all day and build Lego. That’s all I do.

Matt McWilliams: What’s a bunky? That’s what.

Justin Demers: That’s my. That’s our office is a bunky.

Matt McWilliams: Is that a Canadian term or did I just not.

Sarah Tempte: It is brand name, but I think it is a Canadian brand.

Justin Demers: It is a Canadian. Yeah, it’s a Canadianism. Okay, so in your Bunky, what’s a Bunky?

Matt McWilliams: I mean, I didn’t know if that was like a kid’s thing, like my blankie, you know, I mean, kinda.

Justin Demers: It’s an adult. It’s an adult kids thing. Like when you get older, you now have like a little house in your backyard versus, like a fort out of cardboard.

Matt McWilliams: That’s awesome, Bunky. I’ll have to look that up. Um, uh, what was the workflow for you guys in this lunch? Because, you know, this is a team effort, so it’s not just like one person, you know, running the thing. Um, what did that look like in terms of just how you guys work together and delegated or, um, you know, whatever that process was.

Sarah Tempte: Yeah, I feel lucky because I think we, as a partnership versus doing the solopreneur thing, which I did for a long time, is we get to divide and conquer. And so there’s a lot of, here’s our launch plan. Like, if we got on that planning call in January or February saying, what are we going to do for this tribe launch? Then cool, I’m going to go write the sales page copy and then I know I can send it Justin’s way and he’s going to build it, design it, get the pixel set up and all of that. And so, I mean, there’s a lot of collaboration, but I also think there’s a lot of, like, trusting each other to do their thing. So Justin’s not micromanaging my sales page, writing, or we’re not trying to do it together and vice versa. Like, when he is designing, building, working on ads, like, that’s his thing. And I think we really trust each other with our pieces of the puzzle, which allows us to actually save time versus the two of us trying to do everything together or agree on every little thing.

Matt McWilliams: That’s powerful. Justin, anything to add to that?

Justin Demers: I mean, I think there’s. It’s just that, like, um, that shared vision, like, so, you know, both of us showed up with the same, you know, goal in mind for this promotion and why we’re sharing with it. And yeah, like, for us, it was like, we’re on the same page and we’re running the same race. And so it is definitely a T. Everything we do is a team effort and we have staff now and. And it’s just like we’re all running the same race. Um, um. And there are. I mean, I remember there were some days where it was like there was, you know, we have our own business to run, so it’s like there’s that happening while this promotion is happening. And so there are some days where, like, Sarah went through quite a lot actually, and prepared, like the show notes before we were going to go and share the story and I was like. Like, she just made it happen. Um, and so, yeah, there’s just. We’re all in it together.

Sarah Tempte: Yeah. I think the last thing I’ll say about workflow is a shared work style or work ethos. Like, we say a lot. We don’t run an emergency business. We don’t do emergencies in our business. We’re not supplying oxygen to anyone. We’re not doing surgery. Like, everything’s going to be okay. And so I think that really helps us when we’re in launch mode, that we’re not adding drama to each other’s plate. If an email doesn’t go out, if something breaks, if certain numbers aren’t what we thought they would be, I don’t think we’re not adding stress to each other by freaking out and saying, oh, my gosh, we’ve got to stay up till midnight fixing this, or we’ve got to put all these fires out or this is a disaster.

That’s just not how we operate. Like, that isn’t the type of interaction that either of us is really Available for, like, we solve a lot of problems, we get things done, but we don’t want to run the type of business where we’re melting down during launches. Like, that doesn’t feel fun to either of, uh, us.

Justin Demers: I’m going to add something to the end which I thought was awesome, which I learned in this launch, is that Sarah is also very competitive. And so there was a moment near the end, like, you know, Matt, all your gamification, leaderboards and all that stuff. There was a moment near the end where Sarah got real feisty and I was like, wow. Like, this is the first time I’ve seen Sarah at this level of, like, game face. Um, which was fun because I think, like, heck, yeah, it wasn’t like, um, yeah, I mean, this, this was, you know, you could say it was a competition, but it wasn’t a competition because at the end of the day, like, anyone who signs up for Tribe wins. Like, that’s. So this isn’t a competition amongst affiliates where it’s like, you want everyone to succeed.

And so the game face was also like, hey, this is actually really cool. Like, the. And I mean, I don’t know how much we can share, but, like, the. The numbers were at some point, like, um, lower than last year. Right? So we’re like, but this can’t. This can’t be. There can’t be less people signing up for Tribe this year than last year because Tribe works like, more people need to sign up for this. And. And like, that conviction definitely came out, um, in. In our teamwork too.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah, it’s a healthy competitiveness, absolutely. Like, my best friend and I, like, we. We played golf every day and we would all mean. We were always, you know, loser. You know, loser buys dinner. Loser. You know, it was like, uh, I remember one we used to. We used to take. We’d spend. We take three people and we’d stay in a hotel room at golf tournaments just to save money. Losers, like, whoever had the high round of the day slept on the rollout. And when I walked off the course, it didn’t matter if I just shot my best round, you know, uh, it didn’t matter if I was leading the tournament, if I played really bad, if I played really bad, but I was one shot better than one of the other guys.

It’s like a little bit of yes. Like, I get to at least sleep in the bed. I don’t just sleep on the rollout. Like, and I could be leading the tournament. But, like, I remember one time there was. I was leading the Tournament after three rounds. But I didn’t play great that day. I didn’t care about lean turns. Just like, what did Hunter and Connor shoot? You know, I had immediately went to the cause they had already left. And I’m like, yes, okay, I didn’t beat Hunter, but I beat Connor. I get to sleep in the bed tonight. You know, like, that’s a healthy competitiveness, you know? And I still wanted them to do well. Like, I wanted us to always. I wanted them to finish in second and third place every time.

Sarah Tempte: Yeah, no, it’s fun because, like, we’re in a mastermind with the person who got first place are you. And third place in the competition.

Justin Demers: So.

Sarah Tempte: So we weren’t against them in this sense. But it’s like, I’m okay not getting first place or I’m okay not being on the leaderboard. Like, I’m okay, but I’m not okay not being on the leaderboard or not placing because we just didn’t send an email or, uh, because we just didn’t show up. Like, I think it’s that, like, leave it all on the field sort of.

Matt McWilliams: You forgot that thing. Like, right. It’s like, why can’t we do that, right?

Sarah Tempte: If we’re not top players, like, that’s fine, but let’s not not be top place because, like, we didn’t send the voice messages or we didn’t reach out to the people who are on the fence, or we didn’t send the five or seven emails on cart close day.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah.

Justin Demers: So this is the thing. This is. This goes back to, like, how we work. So Sarah is, like, the very competitive. Right. And Justin is the Canadian who’s filmed Super Bowls and every NFL stadium and not cared at all about who won any of the football games. Cause I just don’t care about sport.

Sarah Tempte: Meanwhile, I, like, have NFL podcasts on my phone. That’s the main type of media that I consume.

Justin Demers: So maybe that’s the other part of teamwork is that there’s one person who’s, like, very competitive to carry the other person through. Because it totally, like, uh. I mean, for me, it was like, Sarah’s game face brought my game face on too.

Matt McWilliams: That’s awesome.

Justin Demers: We’re all in this.

Matt McWilliams: No, I love that. I think. I, uh, mean, that’s just so important if you’re. If your partner or. I mean, I think, you know, my business partner’s my wife. And when it comes to planning and budgeting and, like, if it were up to me, like, I literally have no clue how much Money we have. Uh, you know why I don’t? Because our quarterly meeting was 13 days ago. That’s the last time I knew how much money we had, and I will not know again until October 1st. No clue. And. But I’m glad that she does. You know, our employees would never get paid. Our team would never get paid.

You know, like, I would just assume that they were doing great because I’d work for free, so that, sure, they’ll work for free, too. You know, and they’d have to remind me. And you know why? They could also take advantage of that. They could remind me twice in a month, and I’d pay them twice. So I’m glad she’s got that. Um, before I wrap up with our last question, I just want to. I want to thank you guys, especially something you said, Sarah. Um, the part about the, you know, we don’t do emergencies, um, that’s a great reminder for me. I know a, uh, few years ago, and you guys have probably heard. Heard him do this, but Stu spoke at a conference that I was at, and he just.

You know, when the stuff hits the fan in a launch or a promotion, he’s like, I just want you to remember. And he played the song, you know, Bob Marley, Two Little Birds, I think, is that. I don’t know the name of the song. I just always known it as Every little thing is going to be all right. And, um. And, you know, I. That song will pop in my head, and it reminds m. Like, we’re in the middle. I was telling you guys before we, you know, we went live, like, soon as we get off this, I know what I got to go back to. It’s a big old poop storm with a. With a launch, and yet nobody’s panicking. I’m not like, you know, um, one of the guys on our team texted me. He’s like, I’m trying.

I’m trying, trying. I go, great, thanks. You know, like, I know you’re trying. And if it gets fixed by three, it gets fixed by three. If it takes till four, it takes till four. If it’s not today, well, we did our best, you know, and it’s not like the. Well, I’m just going to go watch ESPN for two hours while my team fixes it. I’m here to help, but I realize there’s nothing I can do. I’m not the tech guy. I don’t know how to do it. So thank you for that reminder. And, Justin, thank you just for what you have shared today. Like, again, I Know you kind of, you glossed over it but man, that uh, what you shared about that sales page was so good and just uh, this has been so awesome.

So here’s the last question. I think I would like to know, and I know people who are where you were two years ago, would love to know, um, if you could take somebody who’s exactly where you were two years ago, no audience, like not even really have a business yet, um, and you could give them one piece of advice, what would you say to them? And maybe we could go each of you, Sarah first or Justin first or however you want to do it.

Sarah Tempte: I think one of the big things for us has been staying in our lane. I think that’s one of the things Justin, you alluded to earlier that opened up the opportunity to do this affiliate promotion because it was a gap, something we don’t teach. We have really leaned in to teaching one method, becoming known for one front end product, you know, not trying to reinvent the wheel every quarter or launch some new offer every other month. But we’ve got our mini workshop, we continually are sending people to that. Like we teach a specific method in that.

It’s like go to that, that’s our thing, that’s what we’re known for, that’s what we talk about, that’s what we do, that’s what we build our community around. And then in our membership we help people implement. And so it’s helped us uh, build a community that’s really aligned. It’s helped us help people get actual results because we’re not trying to teach them a million different strategies. It’s helped us create an awesome product because it’s not bloated and it gives us a lot of opportunity to point people towards softwares and programs that fill in other gaps.

Matt McWilliams: Yeah, that’s awesome. You finished right as I had to cough. That was great.

Justin Demers: Perfect.

Sarah Tempte: You nailed it. That was awesome.

Matt McWilliams: Please keep talking for five more seconds. Uh, Justin, how about you?

Justin Demers: So I mean at the end of the day we as much as this, like yes, this is an affiliate competition or an affiliate thing and yes we’re making money. That’s not like our guiding beacon. And so for many workshop Magic for wake up to freedom for membership Magic for Tribe, it really is about like helping people get the thing that they’re after, like get that result. And um, the reason, the reason people trusted us to sign up for tribe is because their trust is well placed. And it was well placed when they signed up for mini Workshop Magic and got that result. It was well placed when they joined us in Wake up to freedom. And I’ve seen that result. Um, I hate to say it, but there’s a lot of overhyped products with big promises that don’t deliver. And so if you’re out there.

Matt McWilliams: Um.

Justin Demers: Don’T make crappy products. Like, don’t. It sounds silly to say, but, like, there are a lot of crappy products. Like, make something that works because as soon as you do, you immediately stand out. And it’s not like we’re not, again, famous. We don’t have flashy marketing. We don’t rely on nice cars or any of that stuff. Like, we just have a product that works and we just continually make it better. Which is like Tribe, right? He’s stu. Continually makes it better and. And better and better. And that’s just in service of clients. So that’s the thing that’s worked for us.

Matt McWilliams: Well, guys, thank you. I know we went a little long for all of our time here, but I just want to thank you so much for your time. Um, before I go Google bunkies and learn more about this Canadian gym, um, that I still think you might be making up that word. It’s probably going to end up being something that I’m going to regret. Googling. I don’t know why. I just.

Justin Demers: D u n K I E. Yeah.

Matt McWilliams: I’m hoping that this doesn’t lead me down a weird path.

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Justin Demers: It’s like a Canadian cottage.

Matt McWilliams: Um, where can people find you? And I just want to say before. Before you answer that you mentioned earlier, you guys don’t have, like, you know, free entry points. So, guys, what I want you to do is listen to what Justin says. And then below this video, we are going to put a giant link, probably in the form of a button. Okay? Click it. If what you see is good for you, you say, I gotta have that, then go upstairs, don’t wake your dog up. Whatever you gotta do, tiptoe down the hallway, grab your wallet. I get it. It is. I know I said it earlier. It’s an. It’s a barrier. Across the barrier and go. You know what? I gotta have that. Because if nothing else, I want you guys to see how Justin and Sarah, I, uh, want you to see those 30 emails.

I want you to see what they’re doing in their business. So you can, you know, like you said, Sarah, like, people are at. You’re gonna be adding these to their swipe file. Um, you know, if nothing else, do it for that reason. So where can people go on that link? Below Justin or that link will take.

Justin Demers: Them right to mini workshop magic. So if you’re interested in building a workshop that helps you create a list of buyers, buyers who sign up for affiliate offers or sign up for your main product or your membership or whatever it is that you typically sell, we want to help you do that. So click that button.

Matt McWilliams: I don’t think anybody’s like, after hearing this, they’re probably like, whatever, you know, many workshops, it doesn’t even work. Well guys, thank you so much. This has been awesome.

Sarah Tempte: Thanks for having us.

Matt McWilliams: So how awesome was that from basically zero to second place? Uh, Justin and Sarah, they are proof you do not need a huge list. You don’t need years of experience, you don’t need a massive team to absolutely crush it in one of these big affiliate launches.

Really, you just need the right story. You need, you know, right strategy, the right compelling story. And you need to really understand your audience. I mean it really comes down to that. So if you loved what they shared about running a paid workshop, about building buyer focused lists, maybe partnering up for your promotions, imagine what would happen if you actually put even one of those things into action for your next launch.

Just one. So try it. Try something you learned today. Put it into practice. And don’t forget this is part five of this seven part series. So if you missed any of the earlier episodes, go back and catch up there. There are gold nuggets in every single one. And make sure you hit subscribe because we got two more episodes coming up. Not to mention all the other amazing content we have coming up this year.

Uh, so go make sure you hit subscribe if you haven’t yet because you do not want to miss the episode. Upcoming episodes, I got two more amazing interviews. If you want the swipe copy the behind the scenes stuff, uh, that midnight mover email I talked about before, you can Text midnight to 260-217-4619. Again, you can text me anytime there as well. Uh, questions or ideas for episodes. So with that again, like I said, make sure you hit subscribe because the upcoming episodes are amazing.

The next one is one of my favorite interviews I have ever, ever done. You don’t want to miss it. So I will see you then.

See you soon.